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Talk:Shotguns
In Point of Reality about the AA-12 It`s weird, no one`s talking here, but here my point goes about the "actual AA-12". Based on the game, The AA-12 requires 100 stat strength to use it which is partly illogical and I will make my point clearer later. Second, you need 110 shotgun skills, that`s very acceptable. Third, the firing rate is only 3 shots per second which is also illogical in a way but that`s based on the game system so I have not much to say. In Reality about the AA-12 Now, consider the strength stat required. Now most of us know that strength stat is just a requirement stat. But basically strength is needed to overcome recoil Italic text. Most shotguns are build in such a way that it has one of the highest recoil. ''' However, '''NOT THE AA-12A.The weapon utilizes a constant recoil system that reduces recoil by 90% as compared to a traditional 12 gauge shotgun. The reduction in recoil is the primary reason that this shotgun can be fired effectively in the automatic mode. With little or no barrel rise, this weapon is a monster when clearing rooms! Technical Data - 12 Gauge (3" Shells)Fires a 20 round drum in about 4 seconds / Long Stroke Gas Piston with''' "constant recoil" ''' What is Constant Recoil? - When the weapon's gun bolt is cycling a round, a gas system absorbs most of the shock and energy, about 80% of the total recoil. The weapon also has a very strong recoil spring that absorbs another 10% of the recoil. The result is a weapon that cycles efficiently and effortlessly while transferring 10% of the recoil of a normal 12 gauge to the shooter! A Russian soldier trying out the AA-12 said "Even a baby can handle this". The strength stat requirement to use the AA-12 in Dead Frontier is therefore partly irrelevant in the aspect of reality. Next, the firing speed. It fires 300 Rounds per minute / Fires a 20 round drum in about 4 seconds. Its weapon that will fire 20 x #4 Buckshot 12 gauge shells in 4 seconds while spraying 540 .24 caliber pellets. Clearing a room with known enemy targets will forever be changed when employing this capability. So the AA-12 is just about as fast a sub-machine gun but slower. Sangreal7 (talk) 12:31, May 19, 2013 (UTC) To start off... FPSRussia's not actually Russian, by the way; I knew within about 15 seconds of reading into this that that was where you were getting your information. The guy's a civilian named Kyle Myers, and he's a dude from Georgia that fakes a Russian accent, and fires guns on his farm, most of which don't actually belong to him, but are lent by their owners for the production of his videos. That said... you've got some misunderstanding as to how recoil actually works, especially in the context of the AA-12; the system you're referring to doesn't do that much to "eliminate" recoil (there are far too many factors to discuss in a short conversation, and any detailing would best be done on a wall); the chief actor there is that the shotgun weighs almost as much as an M249 these days. It weighs over five kilos unloaded, and with a full drum locked in, it's almost seven and a half kilos. That's a *lot* of weight absorbing all that recoil, which is - outside of porting the barrel, or attaching some sort of suppressor, or firing low-power ammunition - the biggest actor in the mitigation of recoil. It is, after all, a physics equation. The recoil of the weapon is being transferred to the shooter regardless; the shooter may experience varying levels of "kick" subjectively, but the recoil out of an unmodified weapon firing a particular sort of ammo is universal. So yeah, anyway... the AA-12 itself is about heavy as a motherfucker. All *that* said... most modern military shotguns employ some sort of gas system (or other operating system) which bleeds off the energy released in the firing of a round of ammunition to cycle the weapon's action, resulting in a similar reduction of recoil as that seen when operating the AA-12; the recoil from, say, an M1014/M4 Super 90 shotgun isn't particularly harsh, even compared to small-caliber rifles. Even so, even manually-operated 10- and 12-gauge shotguns aren't *that* harsh; they're something that can be handled fairly easily by a first-time shooter after a few minutes of instruction on how to properly hold the weapon, and how to stand while holding it - it's not so difficult as it's often made out to be, especially on this wiki for some reason. Since you're talking about "reality" ... there's actually very little use for an automatic shotgun in nearly any real-world situation one could imagine. Shotguns, by their very nature, are incredibly niche tools, and ones that happen to have most of their capabilities overlapped and performed better by the rifles and machine guns already employed by the military. For example, in clearing a room, shotguns are typically used merely for door-breaching, then slung, with a rifle drawn in its place. When one makes entry into a house, they need a weapon that is, chiefly, precise, especially in a situation where you may have civilians present in either the same structure and where you'll *definitely* have friendlies, or the same sorts of people just outside. This means that something that sprays - at full auto - nine .32-caliber pellets out with each shot is not what you want in your toolbag. This, and all shotguns, are also limited by the nature of their ammunition. Rifle ammunition is lighter, takes up less space, and can be more easily carried and stored in magazines than relatively large, chunky shotguns shells; eight 12-gauge shells (enough to fully load most shotguns commonly used by the military the untested, prototyped AA-12) take up the same amount of space as a 30-round STANAG magazine holding ammunition that can reach out half a magnitude farther than that shotgun can, more accurately, with more terminal ballistic energy. When your longevity and survivability count on your being able to carry a sufficient quantity of ammunition to last throughout a sustained firefight at potentially long ranges, a shotgun doesn't become an asset in any way, shape, or form - it's a liability to the shooter's survival; this individual would be carrying a couple drums of ammunition that would be utterly unable to be aimed in any meaningful way at a longer-ranged target, outside of about one hundred meters or so, and with so much space on his person taken up by the shotgun and its bulky ammunition (which could have otherwise been occupied by a rifle or light machine gun and hundreds to thousands of rounds that *are* useful at all ranges) he doesn't have another weapon that he can go to. A shotgun is useful in a few highly-specific circumstances, and the things that make them useful in these cases are not qualities that the AA-12 possesses, and in fact, things that are taken away by the very nature of the AA-12 system; when a shotgun is needed in a military application, it's handled by semi-automatic and manually-operated systems like the M1014 (semi), M590A1 (manual), or the M870 (manual). Modern semi-automatic rifles, however, are useful in nearly every combat application one can think of, which is why the military uses a variety of semi-auto rifles in several sizes and calibers, not a bunch of full-auto shotguns of dubious usefulness. (P.S. Shotguns loaded up for military applications don't use #4; it's 12-gauge OO buck, nine pellets of roughly .32-caliber size - the #4 stuff loses a great deal of energy over a fairly short range, very quickly. It's basically stuff that you wouldn't use outside of small animals, or on larger target, from outside of a distance about 15-20 meters, which is already getting too close for comfort.) Griever0311 (talk) 15:13, May 21, 2013 (UTC) I see your point now Hmm...ya I guess I wasn`t accurate and I forgot about the other factors.Sangreal7 (talk) 16:40, May 28, 2013 (UTC) About the Painshot The Painshot is one of the only 2 shotguns that doesn`t have a spread-shot. Doesn`t that make it feel more like a super rifle. I`ve never used shotguns before but I had been curious about them. I thought if it does not give a spread-shot then most likely a pierce-shot or a buckshot. I don`t know... --Sangreal7 (talk) 16:47, May 28, 2013 (UTC) Buckshot (or birdshot) '''is '''the "spread-shot" you're referring to. Buckshot and birdshot rounds describe shotgun cartridges that fire a number of small pellets. The pellets are spherical, and are often roughly the diameter of small-caliber handgun bullets; for example, a 12-gauge shell firing 00-sized buckshot fires a number of spherical pellets that are about as big around (if not as heavy) as a .32 caliber bullet commonly used in handguns. It's not the same shape, of course, and is moving at a different velocity, but there it is. Another sort of round often fired out of shotguns is called a "slug." These are suitable for taking larger sorts of game, like deer, and instead of a number of smaller pellets, a slug discharges a single, large projectile. Since most shotguns have smooth bores (that means the inside of the barrel is perfectly smooth, unlike rifles and pistols) the slug has spiraled grooves cut into its outside. When the slug is fired, these grooves cause it to spin, stabilizing it as it flies. In rifles and pistols, the rounds are smooth along their outside, and the barrel itself is rifles (this is more efficient). Now... a 12-gauge shotgun can fire any 12-gauge cartridge that you would care to load into it; the arbitrary restriction to buckshot for all other shotguns, and a single projectile for the Painshot 10 has little basis in reality, unless Yates was trying to imply that the Painshot 10 was a 10-gauge slugthrower (which is a shotgun with a rifled barrel installed, and is only used for firing slugs). I'm more inclined to believe that it was simply a gameplay decision, as the creator of the game isn't exactly tip-top when it comes to getting things right with regards to firearms design (further reinforced when you consider the guy's from jolly olde England, and the average citizen there isn't exactly inundated with firearms culture or experience). Griever0311 (talk) 18:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)